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Thursday, February 01, 2007

Climate Change: "Many, Many Smoking Guns"

Continued from page 1

By Peter Fairley

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The biggest challenge faced by Solomon: ruling out the effects of solar storms, which skeptics of man-made climate change have proposed might be causing global warming. Solomon and others have refuted this notion but confirmed the storms' dominance as a temperature driver in the thermosphere. "Solar-driven changes, while they're extremely large above 100 kilometers, get progressively smaller and smaller as you get lower into the atmosphere, and are extremely small once you reach the surface," says Solomon. Other scientific studies have identified human influence in everything from declining mountain glaciers and snow cover in both hemispheres, to increases in ocean salinity, to the growing frequency and range of severe droughts.

And as the science has peered into more areas, the models have gotten sharper, too. New modeling techniques pioneered by the Oxford University-based climateprediction.net program, a distributed computing effort, helped the IPCC express its predictions more precisely. The early draft of the IPCC report leaked last week predicts a far tighter range of temperature and sea-level increase over the next century than the previous IPCC report did. For example, the draft projects that sea level will gain between 28 and 43 centimeters by 2100, compared with the 9-to-88-centimeter rise forecast in 2001.

Probabilistic models are also helping the IPCC come to consensus over the most likely figure within their predicted range. In the case of temperature, the leaked draft says that if carbon dioxide concentrations stabilize at 550 parts per million, the planet will warm 2 to 4.5 °C, but it adds a "best estimate" of 3 °C, which is slightly below the mean for that range. Of course, the future trajectory of greenhouse gas emissions and consequent warming depends greatly on future energy and transportation policies and trends. Weaver estimates that uncertainty in emissions contributes about 50 percent of the uncertainty in most climate-change predictions. The rest comes from imperfect understanding of how the climate's physical and biological components interact, such as how much cloud cover will result from changes in temperature.

What is most clear is that the increasing scientific certainty around global warming has emboldened climate scientists as much as it has isolated the small band of skeptics swimming against the scientific mainstream. "There is no credible alternative hypothesis," says Mahlman. "It simply doesn't exist." Weaver predicts that the skeptics will soon fade away as funding sources increasingly pull their funding from organizations and researchers leading the anti-IPCC charge, as oil and gas giant ExxonMobil announced that it had done last month in pulling funding from the Washington-based Competitive Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank. It was the same story with the "smoking doesn't cause cancer" crowd, says Weaver: "Once the funding breaks down, they'll break down."

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Comments

  • "Once the funding breaks down, they'll break down."
    reneverheij on 02/01/2007 at 7:08 AM
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    "Once the funding breaks down, they'll break down."

    A sound scientific argument. 'They have no money, so they must be wrong.' Does this gentleman understand the difference between science and politics?
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    • Re:
      lschuber on 02/01/2007 at 8:28 AM
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      Eventually, as people see daily that warmer is actually better, people will forget about the scientific consensus regarding climate change, just as they have forgotten the scientific consensus regarding eugenics. The money that will dry up is the politically driven funding for computer climate models and for headline grabbing climate "science".
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      • Re:
        tla723 on 02/01/2007 at 3:10 PM
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        Two serious flaws in your arguement: 1. Warmer is not better, unless you think that drought and rising sea levels are a good thing. You may find a few people in coastal cities and arid regions who disagree. 2. The scientific community is not driven by the desire to grab headlines. They simply study the evidence and report their findings. On the other hand, you will find heavy bias behind the sceptics arguments, namely big oil funding.
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        • Re: Warmer is Better
          lschuber on 02/02/2007 at 8:31 AM
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          I believe the dinosaurs would argue that warmer is better. Their MUCH warmer environment supported a bio-system with sufficient food to support a wide variety of building-sized animals.

          Perhaps a few people will be inconvenienced, even killed, but we all die regardless, even if Aubrey is correct. It even seems likely many species will be inconvenienced, a few even driven to extinction, but again, we all do in the end. With a multibillion year track record, life has a 0.1% success rate so far. Why would we suppose it might improve? It is foolish to suppose it will worsen. As popularized in "Jurassic Park," life will find a way. The only certainty is change. The only hope for our posterity is technological improvement. The notion of reduction is certainly a "cure" that is worse than the purported disease.
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          • Re: Warmer is Better
            aeroculus on 02/02/2007 at 8:58 AM
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            to ischuber: you should be ashamed to participate in this conversation if you actually use 'Jurassic Park' to make a scientific point
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          • Re: Warmer is Better
            tla723 on 02/02/2007 at 10:11 AM
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            I suppose if your perspective is on a scale that reaches millions of years and looks at overall evolutionary success and failure, I will concede to your point that warmer may be better. If OTOH your rooted in the "here and now" as most of us are, the "inconveniences" you refer to seem more like catastrophic events. The social and financial collapse of a civilization are not things I put in the "better" category. But that's just me I suppose.
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        • Re:
          bmn on 02/22/2007 at 11:51 AM
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          the problem with your point #2 is that it is wrong. they ARE just grabbing headlines.
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    • Re:
      tla723 on 02/01/2007 at 3:59 PM
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      losing funding doesn't make you wrong, being wrong makes you lose funding.
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      • Re:
        bmn on 02/22/2007 at 11:53 AM
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        not in the UN (or in DC for that matter).
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  • If we say it enough times it must be true...
    peter81 on 02/01/2007 at 8:08 AM
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    Why do "global warmers" continue to ignore the question:  Who/what warmed up the earth to cycle it out of the last ice age?  As far as I know, Exxon-Mobile wasn't refining crude oil back then, and Ford hadn't rolled the first Model A off the assembly line.
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    • Re: If we say it enoug times it must be true...
      ggeorge on 02/01/2007 at 8:22 AM
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      I haven't published this yet, but the answer is that as the cavemen killed the wooly mammoths the campfires they built to cook the mammoth meat caused it.  If we repeat this enough, it will become the accepted explanation.  Just like the current theory, we only have to show a correlation, no need to show any cause or entertain any other ideas.
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    • Re: If we say it enough times it must be true...
      tla723 on 02/01/2007 at 3:17 PM
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      A better question to ask may be, why do you choose to not believe in the face of overwhelming evidence? By that way of thinking, the only logical explanation for global warming is that a covert organization made up of tree hugging, anti-oil greenies somehow paid off 99% of the worlds top scientists to lie about their findings and promote their evil agenda of destroying the U.S. economy.
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      • Re: If we say it enough times it must be true...
        peter81 on 02/01/2007 at 4:43 PM
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        You might think your question is better, but I think is it folly to ignore something so obvious.  What has been warming the earth up since the last ice age?  It can not have been industry/automobiles; they did not exist. 
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        • Re: If we say it enough times it must be true...
          Gurthang on 02/01/2007 at 11:26 PM
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          The shortest answer I can make to your ice age question is that the ice ages that we can "see" occured on a fairly regular schedule. Why this is is currently under debate, some say it may be due to natural cycles of our sun or flucuations in earth's orbit. The problem is that what is happening now appears for the moment to be changes operating at rates that exceede what data we have about past "normal" climate change. 

          Well now that I think about it, there were some events in the fossil record that showed rapid global cilmate change has occured in the past without man to precipiate it.. but people don't like talk about them because to compare them to now would be fear mongering.
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        • Re: If we say it enough times it must be true...
          tla723 on 02/02/2007 at 10:06 AM
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          Fair enough. The answer is, the natural cycle is responsible for the majority of this warming. Indeed, the glaciers receeded long before the automobile. In the past 100 years or so however, human causes have begun to eclipse and surpass this natural effect.
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          • Re: If we say it enough times it must be true...
            bmn on 02/22/2007 at 11:56 AM
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            your second sentence has no basis (other than repetition). corelation is not cause. specify cause, show observable and repeatable phenomena, and then we might be getting somewhere.
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  • Thermosphere
    axe3va on 02/01/2007 at 8:10 AM
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    Solomon finds changes in the thermosphere as predicted by the models, and cites this as an affirmative signal of man-made climate change.  However, he then admits that solar-driven changes are "extremely large above 100 kilometers."  How can he attribute the changes as man-made in light of this admission?
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    • Re: Thermosphere
      Gurthang on 02/01/2007 at 2:50 PM
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      Not having read his paper I would have to assume that he has taken enough measurments over time to show a trend. So yes if e were to only take a few measurments it would be virtually impossible to see the trend through the "noise" but gather enough data from multiple sources over time and you can come to some pretty good conclusions.
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      • Re: Thermosphere
        bmn on 02/22/2007 at 11:59 AM
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        this doesn't make sense either. "enough measurements over enough time"? we have only KNOWN about the thermosphere for less than 100 years. how can measurements of high altitude effects vs. lower altitude effects be taken and compared over an appropriate (geologic) interval? this is more of the same - I see a short-term trend, and extrapolate to infinity. this is not science.
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  • Doom for current fossil fuels industries?
    nekote on 02/01/2007 at 8:34 AM
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    If "man-made" CO2 from the existing practice of un-earthing previously stored solar energy and sequestered CO2 in the form of coal, oil and natural gas is truly the culprit, won't those existing industries need to be shutdown, ASAP?

    Won't we need a massive, planetary shift in the energy paradigm from harvesting buried stored solar energy / sequestered CO2 to harvesting sustainable bio-fuels that close the carbon cycle, potentially in addition to nuclear, geothermal, wind, tidal, water, .... ?

    The fossil fuels industries, as we know them today, can quit worrying about / exploring / investing money looking for new buried deposits to harvest?

    Aren't they the industries that have a tremendous vested interest in triple checking that they're truly the middlemen of the problem?

    And, being put out of that business that they have so heavily invested in?
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    • Re: Doom for current fossil fuels industries?
      tla723 on 02/01/2007 at 4:33 PM
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      There's a wide chasm between "triple checking" data objectively and pushing a campaign of deceit with a preconceived, self-benefitting conclusion.
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      • Re: Doom for current fossil fuels industries?
        nekote on 02/01/2007 at 6:15 PM
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        Who?

        Me?

        The standard response of being accused.
        Guilty or not.

        What if, most unexpectedly, CO2 from existing practices is, somehow, NOT the culprit / solution?

        Granted, such industries have an obvious self-preservation bias.

        OTOH, if those industries ARE the root of a serious global problem, shutting them down is a tangible consequence demonstrating the magnitude of the changes necessary.
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  • The basics
    lschuber on 02/01/2007 at 8:56 AM
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    http://ceos.cnes.fr:8100/cdrom-98/ceos1/science/dg/dg1.htm

    Given that CO2 absorbs at 15.5 µm and 4.3 µm, AND that the atmosphere is 100% opaque in these (and CO2's other bands), isn't CO2 already providing all of the global warming that it can? As CO2 continues to increase, isn't the only effect simply trapping that energy closer to the ground, and doesn't weather keep that air well stirred? I'm yet to be convinced CO2 increases increase the overall energy retention. Note in the figures of the link that H2O accounts for nearly all of the energy absorbed in the atmosphere. H2O accounts for more than 95% of the total greenhouse effect. CO2 is already doing all it can.

    Further, consider: Chill a large bowl of water in a large open container. Allow sufficient time for the chilled water to equilibrate with the air. Now, simply seal the container to the atmosphere such that no gas can enter or leave the system (and turn off the chiller). What will happen as the water and container warm to ambient? The only change inside the container will be that the relative humidity will approach 100% AND the CO2 concentration in the air will increase as the solubility of CO2 in the warming water decreases. Given basic science we all learned in our sophomore classes, we know how equilibrium works. The only conclusion I can draw is that CO2 rises as a result of global warming. It is not a cause!
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    • Re: The basics
      bmn on 02/22/2007 at 12:02 PM
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      good lord! are you trying to discuss SCIENCE with the global warming true believers!? that's madness! they have a CONSENSUS! weren't you listening!?
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    • Re: The basics
      TooMany on 11/13/2008 at 12:00 AM
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      Wow, you really have out foxed all those do-do climatolgists!  Boy are they dumb; just a high school deploma let's you see right through the the smoke screen they have set up just to get more funding!  Thank you for revealing this to us all.
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  • World forum for Climate Change discussion
    nekote on 02/01/2007 at 8:58 AM
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    I believe the world greatly needs a genuine forum to discuss the "facts" (pro and con).

    A forum that is open to all.
    With no pre-conceived outcome.
    That will genuinely accept all supporters and doubters.

    Without fear, disrespect, intimidation or other pointless "flaming".

    A forum that will attempt to address all of the pros and cons, one by one, to the n'th degree.

    A forum where the proponents can further investigate, report and augment their arguments and the opponents, likewise, can offer their skeptical points for the proponents to address.

    My hope would be for an eventual greater consensus, whatever it might be.

    Little point in wasting trillions of dollars and years of time on "solutions" that don't, in the end, make for a successful and timely response.

    For example, should Global Melting, for whatever reason, be unstoppable, at this point in time, and the seas are truly going to rise 20 or 200 or whatever feet, moving the world's coastal population (1/2 the Earth's population?) to higher ground, as one potential response, might be the wisest initial expenditure of time and efforts?
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    • Re: World forum for Climate Change discussion
      peter81 on 02/01/2007 at 10:06 AM
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      I believe the estimate in this article was 43 cm (17 inches) tops!  Where do the fear and doomers think all this water is coming from?  They are forgetting that when ice melts its volume is reduced.  The reduction in ice below sea level will make room for the melting ice that exists above sea level. Remember when God told Noah that he would never again destroy the earth by flood.  Relax already!   If a few in the beach condo crowd have to add a couple of feet to their existing foundation, I'm sure they can handle it.
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      • Re: World forum for Climate Change discussion
        nekote on 02/01/2007 at 10:25 AM
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        Forgive me if I am regurgitating an untruth.

        I guess exactly my point.

        Is there, somewhere, a more definitive answer to "how much" the seas might rise, if all of the ice (sequestered fresh water) that is not already supported by the seas (particularly the floating Arctic Ice Cap) were to melt?  Greenland, the Antarctic and toss in various glaciers.

        An answer that had undergone the slings and arrows of repeated review and conjecture?

        A place where the speculation can, over time, settle down to one, or maybe a few, generally agreed upon scenarios?
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      • Re: World forum for Climate Change discussion
        tla723 on 02/01/2007 at 3:27 PM
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        The floating ice would perhaps even out. An ice cube floating in a glass of water melts but does not appreciably change the level of liquid in the glass. On the other hand, there is one hell of a lot of land ice on both Greenland and Antarctica. Scientific estimates put sea levels rising around 30 feet for each continent should they melt completely. Have you people not seen Al Gore's movie? C'mon.
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      • 7 Meters for Greenland; 65M for Antarctica ?
        nekote on 02/01/2007 at 6:32 PM
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        More of the problems I have with all of the "info" out there.

        A very recent Technology Review article:
        http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/18102/

        claimed 7 meters (~21 feet) sea rise if all of Greenland's ice melted and 65 meters (~200 feet) if all of the fresh water sequestered (ice) on Antarctica entered the seas.

        How many years, at what "warm" temperature, will it take for "all" (or enough) of the ice to melt to make a real / measurable / discernible / demonstrable difference?
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      • 43 cm (17 inches) - only glaciers & thermal expansion
        nekote on 02/01/2007 at 7:26 PM
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