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This discussion relates to Technology Review's article Sun + Water = Fuel.

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  gvo1000
  

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  10/20/2008 02:28 AM

  More hype and no substance

  Nocera keeps coming up with tiny results and gigantic claims. Kevin, why do you let yourself be conned by these shysters? Can you just give Nocera a few hundred bucks ... and maybe he will quiet down for a while?

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  • 
    mimarsinan
    

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    10/20/2008 04:16 AM

    Re: More hype and no substance

    Dear Mr. gvo1000, I'll give you the same amount of bucks to shut the ...
    Seriously, even if it was overrated -which I do not believe it is, this IS what the humanity needs TODAY. A little bit of speculation is maybe what we need today for the future of our children. As it was with all the revolutions, the bubbles are need to be inflated eventually blown but the end result will be CLEAN ENERGY for the future generations. So, bring them in, even the craziest ideas, there will be someone crazy enough to bet on.
    And by the way, my thanks to TR and the editor to take part.

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    mit4a
    

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    10/22/2008 04:11 PM

    different take Re: More hype and no substance

    Guys
    
    Instead of reading still much to go R&D stuff like this, you guys at least need to pay a little more attention to the "blacklight power" progress where a working product is "verified" to be able to produce cheap energy seemly out of the generator that should not be working at all if we go by the established physic. Could this be another one of those from a cheap paperback SF...?
    
    I know, I know...mentioning something like "hydrino" (claim to have lower than the lowest energy state proven by current establishment) is like proclaiming that the Sun revolves around the Earth and likely to ban me from web site like forever..utmost Blasphemy to everyone coming here to read and share (However, I believe that once in a while person has to be a messenger).
    
    Having said that, e.g. as we have been using electricity for many years without "really" understanding it, actually built a modern civilization around it, it would be ok to be open-minded once in a while and wonder a little too.
    
    Here is the link to the Wallstreet marketwatch site:
    
    http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/blacklight-power-inc-announces-independent/story.aspx?guid=%7BE7F97EAF-F9F9-454B-8ABF-FDF85F160725%7D&dist=hppr
    
    And the paper: http://www.blacklightpower.com/pdf/BLPIndependentReport.pdf
    
    and the lead professor :http://users.rowan.edu/~jansson/
    
    "If" this becomes a practicality, it would be an interesting time not just for the energy aspect but for the insane effect this giant tsunami shock wave will have on the all the sane minds of physicist around the World. Can't hardly wait (or may end up waiting forever for noth's too ?).
    
    have fun

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  • 
    tech2008view
    

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    10/26/2008 10:00 AM

    Re: More hype and no substance

    No matter what meaning this - so called revolutionary - "discovering" will have ... I must say this chemist doesn't come forward as those humble scientists we normally don't read about (because they are so humble - the real inventors - rarely make it into media) !!!
    
    Just a statement like: "With this discovery, I totally change the dialogue"
    
    I,I,I,I,I TOTALLY. Seems to be an I-centered person. Egotistical might be a correct description.
    
    Btw. I red an article about this guy some months back. Already then I couldn't understand what was so revolutionary. AND ... to make the method usable, then a second step is also needed, which hasn't been presented !!
    
    Add to that, I don't even grasp the greatness of the first step.....

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  • 
    SunreignLedstart
    

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    11/19/2008 06:51 AM

    Re: More hype and no substance

    This Nocera guy is a total distraction. He demonstrates the most stupid and basic thing, water electrolysis. No sunlight involved is there? A waste of attention on the part of your Techreview readers.
    
    You can use sunlight to split water on titanium oxide coated windows with low yield, and with the right catalyst you may get more. Still a waste of time we do not have.
    
    We are out of the research phase for clean energy. The answers are: Solar thermal, Geothermal, Flodesign for wind, Wave and current energy and above all: efficiency. Let's get to work!! 

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  • 
    mbmiller2
    

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    12/01/2008 03:45 PM

    Re: More hype and no substance

    I don't know the chemistry details of this, but I do know that Dr. Karen Brewer at Virginia Tech has been working on this area for years, and has patented and licensed the technology already.  Of course it's still being developed to increase the efficiency, but the point is this is not really new and this MIT guy is not the only one working in the area.  There are smart chemists in places other than MIT.

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  Henry1951
  

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  10/20/2008 07:03 AM

  Sun + Water = Fuel

  Wall Street, Sri Lanka, Iraq, Ritalin....
  Thanks for a story that will put a smile on my face this whole week !!
  Henry

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  Pat495
  

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  10/20/2008 08:12 AM

  Sun + Water = Fuel

  I don't understand what pessimists like Mr. GVO are doing on a site like this.  You have to have vision to see the opportunities.  Each thread or discovery that brings the world closer to energy independence is a step away from the Middle East.  Nature produces all the energy we could require if we have the insights to capture it.

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• 
  jhbretz
  

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  10/20/2008 08:46 AM

  Hydrogen not "easy to store"

  Why does the article claim that Hydrogen is "easy to store."  It's just not.  Now if you could make methanol directly, that would be something.

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  • 
    Kevin Bullis
    

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    10/20/2008 10:11 AM

    Re: Hydrogen not "easy to store"

    It's true that hydrogen isn't easy to store on board a vehicle. But in stationary applications where space and weight aren't as big an issue, hydrogen storage is not as difficult as other options such as pumped water storage.
    But ultimately, as you suggest, it would be good to take the chemistry further and make liquid fuels, using hydrogen from a process like this one, and combining it with carbon and oxygen taken from the atmosphere.

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    • 
      mkogrady
      

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      10/20/2008 12:05 PM

      Re: Hydrogen not "easy to store"

      Fixed storage locations are easy to build. For safety resons perhaps - these hydrogen storage facilities can be placed in old abandoned mines where the possibility of an explosion can be contained underground.

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    • 
      pumpinsunshine33
      

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      10/27/2008 02:04 PM

      Re: Hydrogen not "easy to store"

      Kevin, you have a good point about the difficulties of hydrogen storage being reduced in stationary applications relative to those involving transportion.  However, these systems may still be expensive in terms of cost and in terms of the parasitic energy losses associated with packaging hydrogen in a more dense form (compression, liquifaction). 
      
      Nocera's catalyst may turn out to be a valuable contribution that enables lower cost electrolyzers. 
      
      To say that this discovery is a key enabling technology for widespread solar fuel production is a bit of an overstatement.  Even if the electrolyzer was free the rest of the system components are very costly.  In addition, solar energy is a relatively diffuse resource.  How much hydrogen can you make, when you consider the efficiency of the PV system, electrolzer, hydrogen compression system, and fuel cell, using the sunlight striking a residential rooftop in a good solar location (6 kWh/m2/day of solar input)?  My point is that once you crunch the numbers on a system level you find that you need a very large collection area to make enough hydrogen to power your house using the strategy outlined in your report (without charging the plug-in hybrid). 
      
      
      

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    • 
      aldengajo
      

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      06/30/2009 04:23 AM

      Re: Hydrogen not "easy to store"

      Dear Mr. Bullis,
      I am a Pediatrician in California and a business owner.
      I have invested the last four years of my time and money perfecting Hydrogen hardwares,
      specifically the Alkaline Electrolyzer and Tubular Alkaline Fuel Cell. I choose the
      alkaline type because it provides higher efficieny and cost less to build without
      platinum catalyst. I saw your article about the development of electrolyzer by Mr. Nocera and thought that this might be of help.
      Our 4-Cell Alkaline Electrolyzer makes 15 liters of High Purity Hydrogen and 7.5 liters of High Purity Oxygen per hour. Several of these electrolyzers can be stacked in tandem to increase hydrogen gas production.
      Our primary mission is to make a Solar Hydrogen System affordable for everyone.
      I was able to perfect the system that cost  only 10% of
      available commercial Electrolyzers and Fuel Cells.
      
      I am writing to you because I want to share with you what I have developed and let people  know that there is an affodable
      Solar Hydrogen System that one can build or buy. More informations can be found
      on our website at www.peoplesnewenergy.com .
      
      I am building in my backyard a "Solar Hydrogen Casita"based on our system.
      with Composite tanks for Hydrogen & Oxygen storage.
      Inside the Casita, there will be lights, computer, fan and small refrigerator &  tv to
      simulate a small house.
      Hope that you consider looking at my electrolyzer to see if it will be of help in pursuing the development of Hydrogen as alternative source of energy.
      I was able to pressurize and store Hydrogen so it can be used on demand basis. 
      
      ALDEN GAJO, MD
      (702)219-1560

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      • 
        tune2at
        

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        11/07/2009 12:17 PM

        Re: Hydrogen not "easy to store"

        I have found this blog while looking for aldengajo's product. The fuelcellstore.com used to have a stack-on electrolyzer AS15. It is no longer listed.I did find Dr. Gajo's web site PeoplesNewEnergy.com with that product. I have not been able to find much about him or his company. Maybe he will tell me why the fuelcellstore has no reference to it anymore. I would love to believe that it is a working product just like the Ad says.

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